SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Consultancy Edge. I'm your host, Matt Hodkinson. And today I speak with Jeanne Omlor, the founder and CEO of Jeanne Omlor International, a business coaching company helping entrepreneurs to scale organically. Jeanne built a multi seven figure business in just 17 months without paid advertising or complicated funnels. I'm so glad that she joined us today to share her journey, to share some of the tactics and strategies that are working for her and her clients today. It's a real fascinating story and one that I'm sure you're going to benefit from. So let's dive straight in. Welcome to the Consultancy Edge, Jeanne Omlor. How are you today?

SPEAKER_02: 0:50

I'm doing fantastic. And you, Matt?

SPEAKER_00: 0:52

Yes, absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today. I know on the podcast, historically, we, I think, have favoured, perhaps too often, the larger organisations, the boutique consultancies, and I was really looking forward to interviewing you because yours is by no means a unique story, of course, but it's a very different story to those that we have hosted here on the Consultancy Edge before, because you are a solo consultant, but one that has grown what can only be described as an empire really. And I think that the levels of income and profitability that you've generated as an individual, I think a lot of consultancy owners with large teams would just really strive for and get very envious of. I wanna start at the very beginning because part of your story is you were, as I understand it, and I still can't believe this, you were 54, you were in debt and a single mom. And most people would have played it safe in that environment. They'd just go and get themselves an easy job somewhere just, you know, to make ends meet and then to hopefully, you know, have a bit left over. What made you go all in on building the coaching empire that you have?

SPEAKER_02: 2:02

Well, okay, first of all, when that happened, I had already been a coach for eight years, but I'd been through ups and downs. And I was newly impoverished after a life change called a divorce and a lot of debt. And moving somewhere else and I was sort of, you know, had to spend time and energy helping my kids integrate into the new city and everything. But I was still working like mad, networking, which is what worked in New York City. And I would get clients. It's a hustle. But I knew I could count on that hard hustle. I would go out to networking. I would get clients. It just, it was a system. It wasn't a sustainable thing, but it's what I knew and it was working enough. Then I was faced with, oh my goodness, now I'm in the Midwest and where I was in the Midwest they don't bet on themselves at all. So I had a classic, great, I'm a good coach, great offer, wrong, wrong, you know, niche, nobody there. So it's like selling ice to Eskimos, right? Because That wasn't working. So one day I woke up and I thought, well, okay, what do I do? I can't get a job. I'm taking care of my kids. And I, what would they give me as a job after not being in the workplace for that long somewhere at, you know, there's a point where you're overqualified for jobs and they know you're not going to stay or you're, or you had too much of a gap and there's no way you're going to just slot back into corporate America. Right. Or I used to be a top executive recruiter. There's not much of that wall street recruiting anywhere. Okay. And that, that industry was long gone. So I thought, okay, I need to do something. And I woke up one morning and I thought, a voice in my head said, if not now, when? And I thought, wait a minute, that's right. We think we're young. We think that life's just going to keep going. And I thought, let's do a little audit here, Jeanne. You're 54 and a half years old. You've got two kids. You're in deep debt. Something needs to change soon because then you're going to be 56. Then you're going to be 60. And life just goes on really quickly. You know that, right? Things just go by. So I thought, what do I do? I thought, I've got to get online because I was going to get online before the whole fiasco of the divorce like three years earlier. So I kind of lost three years in my plans. Got online. I was deep in debt. I plunked down 10K on three different credit cards and I thought, this just has to work for this program. And I knew the program wasn't going to be great because I am not living in La La Land. Okay. I never think anybody is going to save me. I know it's not going to be perfect. My attitude, and I think this is very different. It's the first attitude that's different from most people. I know it's not going to be perfect and I will make the best of it. Instead of, oh, I just hired this coach and they're going to just save my life, wave a magic wand and everything is going to be hunky dory like magic. Because that's not life. You have to do your part. I thought, I can see there's going to be some problems here. But I know if I pay 10K, I'll be at least with other people that paid 10K. And the level of the cohort, the people, is higher. And I might learn from them, which is exactly what happened. So I went in. It was awful. They were actually, since they were shut down by the FTC, they had so many complaints. And I went in. And I thought they were going to teach me Facebook ads. And immediately, I understood these are never going to work for me. That'll just be a complete drain. This is I thought, this is never going to work. And they said, no, you're right. That won't work. Ads won't work for somebody with no validated offer. Just got online. Of course, Sean. I said, oh, that's funny because I just paid you 10K. So what are we doing here? Oh, well, you need to do organic. Now I was so not sophisticated about any online marketing. I was really good at offline and I'm very good at making people money offline, all sorts of businesses. But I thought, what is that? I said, what, like carrots, like organic? And they said, no, Jean, not like carrots. And I said, well, like what then? And they said, basically you can get clients without running ads. Did you know that was a revelation to me, Matt? I didn't know that. I said, wait, you're telling me that I can use social media without running ads and I can get clients. They said, yes. I said, okay, how do I do this? And they said, go talk to people. Four words of coaching. That was it. I said, okay, I will. And I thought, well, they're clearly not going to help me with this. So I have to figure this out right now because I was sort of panicking at this point. I thought this was my last ditch effort. So I thought I have no, no other recourse. I have to make this work if it's work for other people. So I went out and I spoke to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people and I figured out my offer and I realized my offline offer wasn't going to work online. I realized coaches and consultants, most of them make no money at all. or very little, but they're all pretending. And I thought, wow, I could help these people. And I had worked with some of them before anyway. So I, in eight weeks, figured out how to get high ticket clients online with no ads. And everybody was flocking to me. Like, how did you do that? I can see that you have no following, nothing. And I started getting clients right away. And I started, I thought, this is amazing. I was raking. I thought, hallelujah. And me and my kids danced and cried around the house. We were like, this worked. It was the eureka moment that we're all wait for in a business that I waited for years. And we started building it. And five months later or four or five months later, COVID started. And I thought, but then I realized, oh my gosh, people need more help. So from the point that I started building, 17 months later, I had made a million dollars at 92% profit, because it was me. And I'd hired a one other coach, I was doing everything, sailed everything. And I'd hired a VA here and there. And mainly was my processing of 3% of the merchant that was taking that percentage. So so that's and then it's just grown since then. So that's the story, kind of not in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_00: 7:38

Yeah, and I just love it. There's so much to unpack in all of that. I want to start off with that initial investment. And by the way, I think through the story you've told, I think I might know the coaching program that you bought into, but we won't name any names. I just wondered how much of a Hail Mary did that feel like, paying that 10K? And I wanted to bake in another question here for you, Jeanne, is that What I know to be the case is that when you invest in programs like that, and when it does feel like a large investment, when it is quite scary, when there's a bit of pinch of anxiety about it, that really pings your focus into attention, doesn't it? You're going to pay all of your attention to that.

SPEAKER_02: 8:18

You're going to do the work. Especially, the thing is, there is value. There's value that people do not see of having your back against a wall. Now that was the second time. The first time I started my coaching business, which was eight years prior to that, my back was also against a wall. So I got through that, built a, not a bad business, but then another thing happened in my life that took my focus away, drained all of my money and more, New York lawyers, and everything. It was the second time. And I thought, okay, now I'm older. Now I got to do something new. But I knew that had to work. And I was responsible for that. not giving away my power to a bad coaching program. However, what happened was all the other people in the program helped me a lot, just moral support. They were like, wow, look at this woman go and they could see the stress and they were all trying to help me in different ways. And what happened was I ended up, they were like, how are you doing this? Why is that working for you? And I said, look, I'll just, I felt so bad for everybody else. They all paid 10K and they didn't have my gumption. And I thought, you know what? I'll get on a call with you. And I was just doing free coaching just to help my 40 people. Gone on a call and I just showed them what I was doing for free. just to help my team member, you know, just my people, because I thought they just paid so much money and I feel sorry. And of course I wasn't pitching. They had already paid a lot of money and I never dreamt any of these people would ever going to work with me. Some of those people turned around and said, I'm also going to work with you because you're better than them. I said, but you just paid 10K. And they said, no, no, you're better. And I was only 5K then. Okay. And they said, what you gave me in one hour was worth way more than that whole 10K program. And I was like, okay, you know, And I actually got a lot of clients, even after the fact, after it all ended, a year later, six months later, they all remembered me and they came back and said, hey, I want to coach with you. That wasn't the main part of my business, but it was a little extra extra. bonus that just being helpful in that program and just saying, look, I'll help you. Some people were in tears. They're like, I don't... I said, I figured it out. This is what I did. And I just showed them. Wow. And so I was helping a lot of them. And I actually told the coaching company, I said, you really kind of should be ashamed of yourself that one of your clients is coaching your clients for free. Like, you know that's happening, right? They knew it. Which was kind of bizarre. And I don't know. They just... They couldn't have me not help them. But the treatment was very shabby that I was helping. I thought, that's not right. So there's a lot going on that was going on in coaching programs five or six years ago that does not go on anymore because people are hip to it. You have to be very honest and ethical or you're going to be shut down now. That bro marketing has changed a little bit because it's still there, but I'm still here because we're not a McDonald's coaching company. We do have a coaching team. I have like three people working for me now, fewer than I've ever had. I got to hire another two in the back end. But it's not, when you say an empire, I kind of laugh because when you think of empire, you think of like, you know, going into this office building and people in high heels and I'm just at home making money. So, but it is an empire, but it's, it's. It's an exponential empire because that's where we're going now, right?

SPEAKER_00: 11:38

And that is the modern economy, isn't it? Yes. And we're told about the creator economy. I think that exists in so many different sort of guises. And that's why I was so keen to speak with you today, Jeanne, is that I feel like some consultancies are kind of rooted in that mindset that there has to be an office, that there has to be employees, that people are, of course– people are consultancy, yes, but sometimes they would replace limitations on our income ability. And we look at benchmarks about, you know, what's the revenue per head that's achievable. And I think you've sort of broken through some of those perceived ceilings of income on your own. And I do want to tap into what you said earlier, when you first launched your offer, First off, I love the fact that you didn't build it until you'd sold it. No, I

SPEAKER_02: 12:30

was actually, I had already sold it. And I was throwing in every week so many. And they were like, wow, you just put five new trainers. I was a beast because I saw what they needed. I was just doing one-on-one in group and some one-on-one. I thought, okay, I keep saying this, creative training. So my program was built as, well, after I sold it.

SPEAKER_00: 12:52

Yeah. Yeah, and I'm a big advocate for that. And I think more consultants and consultancies really need to tap into that because you need to prove demand. You need to prove your offer as well. And I do wonder, because you did get that flood of incoming inquiries and people coming towards you, what do you put that down to, Jeanne? Was it the offer? Was it you as a coach, your personality, your way of being? What do you think was it that made you such a magnetic proposition to them?

SPEAKER_02: 13:18

Well... I'm very open about my story. And I didn't even have branding photos till I'd been already a multimillionaire. And people were like, how come you just take photos in your car? And I thought, well, because it's a Tesla and the light is really good and flattering through the sunroof. That's actually the reason I'm in my car all the time. But, you know, why aren't you getting? And I just thought, I don't care what these people are saying. I'm making millions of dollars while you're complaining about my branding. Nobody cares. I always keep saying, you know, I'm known for this. This is what I'm known for. Two words. Nobody cares. I'll say that over. And it's kind of almost like one of my mottos. Nobody cares. They don't care. Of course, I have better photos because I need them for certain things like media kits and stuff like that. And they're like, oh, finally, finally, you got some professional photo. I'm like, yeah, and I didn't want to because it took a whole day off my work where I could have been making more money. Right. So I think it was just here's this woman and she's really messy and scrappy. Because I am. And, you know, she's using these screenshots and her writing is, it was really raw. When I wrote posts, I had all these screen, you know, like copywriters. Oh, I can make your copy better. I said, why? People love it the way it is. Let's break the rules because it's working. You know, so don't fix what ain't broke. If it's, you know, there's all this perfectionism going on, which doesn't work because it's like too polished. So when I just did what I could do, just, it was just like, just do it. And there was no thinking. I wasn't thinking because I was in... Action brain, head down. And I think when people overthink it, that's when it doesn't work. When you are raw and you're spitting stuff out in the moment, people see that. I'm not polishing it. I was in Facebook groups and I would sometimes lie in bed and talk my post into my phone and post it in a Facebook group. But then I just checked the typos. People are like, oh, I love that post. I just was inspired. And I would just, one of my coaches, one of my mentors, she goes, that is incredible how you're just spitting the content out. And I said, yeah, I was lying in bed this morning She goes, what? Most people would be like deliberating. No, there's such value in rawness. Okay. And sure, now maybe, you know, my content looks a little more polished and I have better photos sometimes. Because people say, well, you're level. Okay, I get it. You know, sure. I'm probably going to get another photo shoot at some point. I hate photo shoots because I was an actress and it's like really not what I enjoyed is the photo shoots. Everybody thinks that's so fun. For me, it's not. It's always something, what's fun for somebody is not fun for somebody else. What's fun for me is that my client's Really get huge wins. And you will see, you know, my testimonial page, my goal is to have the longest testimonial page in history and as pretty darn long as it is. So it's really about what I want is not to have my branding be ahead of me. And I think people make that mistake where they get all this flashy branding and it's a house of cards. It's just that fake, you know, those fake toys where they had the facades on. You know, those dollhouse facades? That's kind of, they're building that facade. And I don't ever want to be fake. The only fake thing about me are my eyelashes. I joke about that. So the thing is, that's not authentic. People could see, here's this woman, there's no brand, no branding. Jeanne, no, I call it Jeanne's five-minute branding. When I work with clients, five minutes, that's all we're doing. Nope, five minutes, messaging, branding, good photo of you, it's all you need. All people care about is that you can help them. And how can you help them? They're not going to go, oh my goodness, Shana Moore's photo doesn't look that great, so I'm not going to work with her, right? They're not going to do that. Nobody cared. Nobody cares.

SPEAKER_00: 17:05

Nobody cares. I love that as a mantra. It's so true. I was going to mention, I mean, you've had more career pivots than most people have had job titles, Shana. You mentioned you've been an actress, a filmmaker, executive coach, entrepreneur. Can I ask, is there like a golden thread, something that ties all of those roles together that you've fulfilled?

SPEAKER_02: 17:28

Do you know what? I realize it's more like not one thread, but a whole weave. It's a whole. Because when I look at it, you missed the part. Actually, I went to college for fashion design. Okay. And I started that. So, yes, studying design, it makes you think conceptually differently. And that is good training and critical thinking because you have to solve solutions. And it's kind of like engineering. Engineering and design are very similar in what it does for your brain is you're solving a problem. It's spatial. Usually it's, you know, there's numbers, there's mathematics involved with the measurements and there's art and you're solving also problems. with design, any design, you're solving the problem of a picture and it applying to a body or a thing or a house or, you know, you can't just draw a picture and it's going to be great on the human body. A lot of designers make that problem that their designs can never be made because it's a drawing, right? So that was good training and also visuals. So you're learning visuals, creativity, problem solving, and there's some mathematics involved. So I realized that did train me in certain ways, which helped me later on. That helped me with my acting, Because you're visualizing a space that you live in as an actor or their life, and you have to visualize it as a designer. There was some business involved. I was a quality controller, and I was the production manager when I was in business. So there was production involved. There was design, quality. Those are things that you're looking for. Then I was in Paris, and I was also an English teacher. I was a translator. Living in other countries makes you think critically, and you're always on your toes because you have to be figuring out what people are saying to you surviving so there's a lot of critical life skills that I learned and I realized as I went along my life it all just kind of like compiled does that make sense and then when I went to New York to actually give a real go at being an actress kind of late I did get some roles on my own you know but it wasn't like yeah they're all going to snap up a 32 year old they want them you know straight out of acting drama school in America. But I got a job on Wall Street by accident as an executive recruiter because they liked how, you know, I'd lived in Europe for eight years and I spoke French and English and I was educated. And a lot of these investment bankers, they wanted somebody that could speak to them anything. So They said, no, you're so cultured and everything. This is great because it's the level that we want. You can talk about stuff, history, art, whatever, because the investment girls throw stuff out like that. A lot of them are extremely educated and accomplished in many ways, not just business. And so I got this part-time job and then it just went from there and I was really good at it. And so I got good at sales because it's selling and it's about conversation. And I realized at one point, oh, that's why I'm good at organic marketing, because it's a conversation to get it. So all of that. And then, of course, the acting helps my videos, of course. So everything I did really helps what I'm doing now. Every single thing.

SPEAKER_00: 20:48

That's incredible. I love how that all ties together. And you mentioned, of course, that you built a seven-figure business without spending a penny on ads.

UNKNOWN: 20:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 20:55

What

SPEAKER_00: 20:56

do you put down as the secret sauce? And the reason I ask that is there are so many coaches, consultants out there that, you know, some are extolling the virtues of hustle, hustle, hustle. They're not too fussed about getting a good night's sleep or anything else or being otherwise healthy in any respect. Others are taking a very laid back approach. Is it discipline? Is it strategy for you? Is it just outworking everybody else? What's the secret sauce, do you think?

SPEAKER_02: 21:23

Well, at first it was all of that. And I'm really into sleep now because I'm really into longevity and I'm really taking way better care of myself. However, when you first start something, my thing was, this is working. If I'm going to sleep a bit less for now than I will, because I was raking in clients. Before I was raking in clients and I was worried, I was also working nonstop. And weekends, just this, I've got to crack this code. And then once I cracked it, then I was getting a flood of clients. Well, of course, I'm going to service them. I'm not going to say, well, I'm going to go on vacation. I think there was a lack of grit and I'm known for my grit. And it's not that I'm going to overwork and burn out because I have never burnt out. I don't believe in burnout. I'm too interested in being healthy. And I watch for that. So it's not, I'm just going to kill myself. I have two daughters. I can't do that. I have to be healthy. I'm very aware. I'm all they have. And I better, you know, take care of myself. So did I have lack of sleep sometimes? Sure. But I wasn't pulling all-nighters. I can't function. But I was certainly not getting eight hours of sleep, you know, maybe more like six or seven, still six or seven. Okay. Some people think that's a lot. I really need eight. But I I think what it is, and this is what people have told me, especially when I was first doing that program, they said, I am blown away by your work ethic. Okay. That it's never too hard. I'm not like, oh, I clocked off now. No. And job needs to be done. It will be done. That's work ethic. Of course, take days off. Do I have vacation? Yes. Do I work weekends now? No. I don't, I don't work, but I was, I was not whole weekend, but I would do marketing. I'd be messaging. I, I wouldn't take sales calls on the weekend. I never took sales calls. Every now and then I would, if somebody says I can only meet you on the weekend and I want to sign up. Sure. I'll take the call. You're going to sign up. Absolutely. I don't go, no, I'm not going to take the call. So I think it's really about being flexible and being focused. People don't, the focus of what is your focus? Figure that out. And then do it. So if your focus is, I'm not working on the weekends, great, don't. But I'm working on the weekday, focus on those weekdays. And don't fall into this trap of the four-hour workweek myth. That's a myth. The guy that wrote that book doesn't work four hours a week. He's a workaholic, actually. We all know that. Tim Ferriss is an actual workaholic. It's just a title of a book, folks. But they fall into this la-la land of, oh, I'm going to be a multimillionaire, but I only want to work for hours a week. Okay, then don't be a multimillionaire. No person on this earth ever became a huge success saying that. Not one. Study them. Look at their biographies. Read about them. Not one said that. They were hustling. And then later when they make money, they're still hustling, but some maybe hustle less because they have more team around them. Do I hustle now? I wouldn't say I hustle. I'd say that I quit work whenever I want. And if I want to quit at four, I do. And if I want to start at 10, I will. And, you know, if I want to take an extra day off every week, I will. And, you know, but I make sure that I'm only doing that when I can, and there's not stuff to be done. Or if I'm behind, because also look at your numbers. We have certain metrics. If we're not making those numbers, I'm going to put more work in. We're going to do more. We're going to have a group huddle and say, okay, what's going on with our numbers this month? We need to do more. I don't just go, oh, whatever happens, happens. People are not concentrated enough on their numbers. It's mathematics. They're not In the numbers. If you ask anybody, what are your numbers so far to this day, this month? They won't be able to tell me. They won't. You've got to be, because my dad was a mathematician and I'm not, but I learned something from that, being around a mathematician. It's all in the numbers. How many hours sleep you get. I would always count the number of hours of sleep. Always. And people said, that is so strange. That was before people were talking about the importance of sleep. This is years ago. I always knew I wanted eight hours, right? And I said, no, I can't do that because I have to be fed by that time. They said, you count your numbers of hours? I said, yes. I also count how long things take me. If something's taking me 15 minutes every day, work out how much that's etching into your life. So, i.e. putting makeup on for a woman. I got it down to a very tiny amount because I don't want to spend that much of my life putting makeup on. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 25:47

It doesn't make sense to me, Jeanne. Yeah, I can understand that. Yeah, for sure. It

SPEAKER_02: 25:52

does make sense or

SPEAKER_00: 25:52

not. It's been a long time since I put makeup on. No, but you know,

SPEAKER_02: 25:56

activities,

SPEAKER_00: 25:56

right? Of course. I do want to tap into the organic side of things as well. Right. I mean, that being, you know, once you've had that epiphany and you realized that organic was nothing to do with carrots, what does that look like for you now? Because I know that there'll be many consultants out there that have struggled to really make any sort of facets of marketing really work for them. So what does it look like in terms of the content creation side of things? What channels are you focused on? What's working for you right now?

SPEAKER_02: 26:25

Okay. I started on Facebook and I crushed it. And then I realized I really need to learn LinkedIn because a lot of these consultants and coaches can only be on LinkedIn for the nature of their offer. So then I learned LinkedIn. But what I did is I focused on one and I really got that plate spinning. Okay. Then, okay, that was going and then I got a little bit of help, like a VA helping. And then I did LinkedIn and I got cheese plate spinning and I really fully understood. And we keep doing more research on that. Then I did Instagram. Okay. So now we help with three, but I will say what's working the best right now is LinkedIn. It's so much easier to get people, their attention and answer on a call on LinkedIn than any other, because LinkedIn is built for business getting, right? The sales navigator, you're paying and they know you're getting business and it's all good. That's the point. That's why we're paying. All the others are supposed to be social networks, which we all manage because human beings figure out how to get clients. And to their dismay, you know, Facebook became more of a, the Facebook private part became more of a client getting tool. And five years ago, Facebook was closing down personal profiles that had marketing on the banner. Did you know that?

SPEAKER_00: 27:33

They

SPEAKER_02: 27:33

had spiders crawling to read those. And then they realized they couldn't win that battle. So now you can boost your personal posts. So they're clearly acknowledging we're doing business on personal. Because quite frankly, me and millions of people would have just said, well, then I'm off Facebook. Then the only reason I'm on here is for business. Do you think I'm on there to share photos of my kids? No, I'm not. A lot of people are. I would say most people are on Facebook now for business. But LinkedIn was only ever for business. So they want to make it easy for you and you don't have to pretend because you're paying for sales navigator, which is fantastic because you can geographical, you know, all sorts of stuff, searching, right? So now I really do want to give some value as far as like why, and I get where you're going. I want to give some value here, like actual to do stuff. People always say to me, I'm on LinkedIn and I always say, How is that going? I don't want to assume. I will say, how is that going? And I listen and they go, well, it's gotten better or, well, not so great. Or, you know, I just got on it or I've been on LinkedIn a long while. And I say, yes. And are you getting clients from that? Uh, that means no. People go, uh, what does that mean? No. Right. Sometimes they say, oh yeah, it's gotten much better. And I go, great. You know, what's going on? Well, you know, I've been on there for a year and I've got a client. Well, that's, that's not great. No, that's not great. But to them, it's great because it's better than nothing. So I always ask, what does that mean? The only difference of why LinkedIn is not working for people, I'll give the points. These are the points. Number one, you do not have a good offer that has legs that is going to knock people's socks off. Because if you don't have an offer that's going to knock people's socks off, somebody else does and they're going to beat you. And it's not hard. to craft an offer like that because I've done over 500 of those because I can do it in my eyes closed now. So based on who's your market and what are the actual results? So that does not mean I'm going to shed a light on blah, blah, blah. Nobody's going to pay money to throw a light, which is what I saw somebody do on their profile. Are you going to pay lots of money so somebody's going to shed light on something for you? Are you? No, neither am I. It has to be something that they're like, yes, I want that. I'm going to pay money for that. Let's get on a call, right? So people are very bad at that messaging. I am very good at it because I've been teaching this for 13 years offline as well, okay? So when people meet in person, I used to teach, when you say what you do for whom, they have to literally take a step back. They're so amazed. And their socks need to be knocked off. And I would actually do socks being knocked off measures. And I'd be like, ah, my socks aren't really knocked off. Let's keep working at it. And to the point where once I had a client for six years, I met him at a networking event or like an opening. And I told him what I did and he actually took a step back and said, whoa, how do you do that? And that's knocking socks off. Took a step back, literally. Said, wow, how do you do that? And he was my client for six years. Wasn't a coach or consultant. He was actually an architectural design firm. So, That's the first thing is offer, who for, and messaging, knocking socks off. Nobody is going to buy a vanilla offer now. No one. Because you won't stand out. Now, some people love vanilla, but generally they'll put sauces and fudge on it, right? Most people that like vanilla ice cream, it's usually, okay. You want to be chocolate fudge crunch or whatever. You want to be amazing. Okay. So that's the first thing. And that's just the very first thing we help people with. And then your content can't just be again, spinning the vanilla wheels, as I call it. Just, I'm just going to put content out there because I am. There's no intention in that. And people feel that. Got a social media manager and they're just posting content. Again, what does it lack? Focus. Okay. Then the next thing is, You want to do outreach. So when you asked what made me successful, most of that is me reaching out to people and then they look at my stuff. I never waited around and hoped, never, you know, there's a book called Choose Yourself. It's a really great book. It's like this thin. You can read it in half an hour. It's amazing. Okay. James Altucher wrote it. Okay. And I thought, wow, I've always been like that. You never wait around people to choose you. You don't wait around. You do your head down. And if something comes your way, great. Icing on the cake. Personally, I have had zero luck in my business. I mean that. There's been no luck. Nobody discovered me. There was no, oh my gosh, there was no luck. It was all me taking action and getting results. Why? Why? I think that was meant to be because you can't teach people luck. So that's why that was good for me because nobody could say, oh, Jeanne, you were lucky. No, I wasn't. Everything I did was so hard. So now outreach. Numbers are important, but it's also what you're saying to people. And people go, oh, I'm sending a lot of messages. I'm like, how are you sending them? Oh, you have a bot sending them. Got it. And you're not targeting properly. Got it. And you're not connected to your process at all because you paid some LinkedIn lead generation guy in India to come up with some Indian-based message. No offense, but they do. And people are tired of that. So there's then the finesse of what you're saying in the message. And that is very hard. And it's the difference between me with a basketball on the same court with the same basketball with the same Nikes as Michael Jordan. Who's going to win? Who's going to be better using the same basketball? Michael Jordan. It's still LinkedIn, but they don't know how to master their language. So that's it. That's really all it takes to get organic sales.

SPEAKER_00: 33:41

It really is. Whenever there is any sort of platform, any tactic, any strategy that consultants are looking to leverage, and we've done the research. I think we've been dealing in the world of positioning and differentiation for as long as each other, Jeanne. In 99% of cases, it comes down to the offer. It comes down to how it's being articulated, what the messaging is. Is it worthy of attention? And then is it worthy of response? Is it worthy of further investigation? And you're right. The first thing people are going to do when you reach out is check you out. Your profile has to say, it has to back up everything that you're claiming, everything that you're talking about as well. But it really starts with having something meaningful to say, something attention-worthy. And I do want to sort of grow on that idea about, so organic, and that is fantastic, by the way. Thank you so much for oversharing, I would say, on what's working for you there. I want to talk about scaling as well, because there is a perception in the world of consultancy that we sell time for money. And of course, we only have a finite amount. We can't clone ourselves, albeit people in AI would have us think otherwise. So what does scalability and scaling look like to you?

SPEAKER_02: 34:52

Okay, first of all, people are always confusing building and scaling. They're two different things, right? If you're a business consultant, you know that. If you're a business strategist, you know that. Building is one thing. And people say, oh, I want to scale. No, you don't. Scaling is later. If you look up the definition of scaling, it is making the most of what you have to get the most out of it. Building is what you want to do first. This is kind of my pet peeve when we just use scaling. I say scale, but that's not really, because they don't know what it means. So I say, sure, you want to scale this because the whole world thinks scaling is one thing that it does not. What really people need to do is build it first. Later on, then you scale. That is then leveraging what you have already to then scale and maybe hire more people to make at scale, right? So what you want to do is you want to focus just on building. It is a different word and it does mean something different. Okay. And, and the nuance of that is lost all the time. But people that are professional that are listening right now are going to say, finally, somebody that is throwing light on what that actually is. Okay. So you don't say, oh, I want to scale this. You don't scale something when there's nothing to scale. There's no system in place. There's no team in place. You can't scale something where there's nothing to scale. There's no foundation. So people get caught up in catchwords, and I'm going to do this, and they hear it all over the place. And by the way, I just want to let you know, I have tested ads after the fact, 100K worth of ads. They don't work. Because I want people to know that an intelligent person tests everything until they can say something works better. I can't say organic works better if I haven't tried that. So I kept trying it on purpose so that we really bury that one. Because when people say, oh, well, how do you know ads don't work? Well, because I spend 100K doing Facebook over and over, Google over and over, YouTube, Instagram over and over and over, many different digital marketers, all sorts of video, blah, blah, blah, all sorts does not work. It does not work because they don't want it to work for you. It's on purpose. It's an algorithm. You know how they give you a free client when you first start, when you have the worst ad in the world and it's two bucks a day? They could give you clients. They choose not to. Does that make sense? We all know they throw you a free client to get you hooked on the slot machine because

SPEAKER_01: 37:19

it's gambling.

SPEAKER_02: 37:20

It's gambling. All of that stuff people are doing to create funnels and blah, blah, blah. All you're doing is you're just fighting at what level they're connecting. You know, the slot machines have a level one to 10. Well, theirs is like a 10 of a no win or one chance of winning. And all of that is just this fiasco, a circus of playing the game of, well, we're going to try it. And, you know, they could make them work if they wanted to. They don't. because they want you to spend more money. So ads don't work. They just don't. Do they work for certain things? Sure. Ads can work if you want to get people to an event, but not like booking a call or actual selling. They do not work. You can spend up to like$400 just to get somebody to book a call and it's not even going to be a good call. So why would you do that when you could just, I remember thinking we would be making this money, energy and time we put into it to test it. I was like, oh my goodness, I'm making more money with free doing organic, much, much quicker and far more targeted people. Because ads people, they're like, just click, you know? So anyway, what was your question again? Oh, the building. So all I did, I'm just this, look, I'm a simple person. And I think that has been part of, of the gift. I'm simple. I'm pretty dumb in some ways because it's black or white in some ways. So I have an offer. I need to sell it, sell it like hotcakes. How do I do that? Just keep doing it and just do it, right? I'm going to hire some people to help me. Yes. One by one, get a VA, show them to do part of my job. Great. One more. And I just integrate one piece at a time. I don't plug in a team. I don't plug in salespeople. That never works. Why? It lacks focus. It always comes back to focus. Okay. Focus and attention. We've got this thing. It's like really good tense. It's working. Okay. Now what do we do? Do we let it all go? No. There. Okay. What do we get? One person in. We make sure they're really integrated. I use the word integration a lot. Okay. Keep, get that going. Okay. Great. Now. Okay. I need more help. Let's get one more person. Integrate. Train. Okay. One thing at a time. Great. I need one more. Okay. But you don't just plug people in because nobody can plug seven people into a team and be successful. That's not good hiring or training. Right. And this is what I see all the time. Oh, I'm just, oh, I just started my coaching business and I want somebody to sell for me. No, you have to sell for yourself. You have to understand how to sell your stuff. You have to sell it a lot. And then if you want to hire a closer, you have to understand your numbers will drop. We know that they will drop for at least three months while you train that person to be you. And it's not going to be the same because nobody's going to sell like you. And that's okay if you're like, yeah, well, I do want the help because I want that time back. But be reasonable that that's the fact. Do you accept that fact to drop your revenue and profit for a while? It's your choice. Your choice. Now, personally, whenever I've gotten somebody that I thought could sell with me, I've all kept selling myself. And... work out because they're in La La Land and they want to take one call and sell. They take one and they don't close and they're like, oh, it didn't work. I'm like, you took one call. There's also that factor of getting good help. There's so much involved, but I would say keep it lean and mean. Do whatever you can to keep it lean and mean and concentrated and focused. Just stick to the plot. Don't sell three and go, I'm going to get help. No. No. Keep selling, selling, build it up, be really sustainable, and then get help. Now, I'm not saying not to get help for little things. Sure, delegate little things all day long, right? Get a VA to do all your stuff. I mean, if I could have somebody brush my teeth for me, I would hire them. You know, because it's all time, right? I'm a time Nazi. There's certain things I'm like, oh, I wish I could just hire somebody to do that. But unfortunately, I have to brush my own teeth. But I'm big on delegation. It's not about that. It's about... It's about giving pieces of yourself away randomly because you think that's how people do it. That's not how we do it. Keep it lean and mean and integrate one thing at a time, one element. Fully integrate that element, then one more, and then one more. That's how you do it.

SPEAKER_00: 41:36

I love that advice, Sian, around focus. And that's clearly why you've allowed yourself to be as profitable as you have, for sure. We have come to that part of the interview where I'm going to suggest that we do the snog, marry, avoid. And regular listeners will know that it isn't the usual snog, marry, avoid. It's all very professional and business related. So a snog is a quick win. What would you recommend to the listeners out there? Might be a quick win in business, something that perhaps has served you very, very well.

SPEAKER_02: 42:05

Oh, that they can do?

SPEAKER_00: 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 42:08

Okay. Quick win.

UNKNOWN: 42:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 42:12

Speak to as many people as possible on social media, even if it's imperfect. Just speak to as many people as possible.

SPEAKER_00: 42:19

What should people's expectation be of that, Sian?

SPEAKER_02: 42:22

They're going to learn a lot. They're going to actually learn a lot because you learn a lot just talking to people. It is direct. We have something that nobody really talks about except for me. I've never heard anybody say this. People aren't understanding. In the history of the world, we had focus groups, and they would pay people to turn up to focus groups to give their advice on a product or service. Did you realize we have 24-7 everyday fake focus groups when you talk to people in your market on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn? You have direct, direct input nonstop. That is historical. We never had that access. Understand how lucky we are to have that and use it.

SPEAKER_00: 43:02

Yeah, easy. So simple again. What about the marry then? This is something that you absolutely couldn't do without in business that has served you well for some considerable time.

SPEAKER_02: 43:13

Help. I mean, you need people helping you. Like I have coaches on my team. I have people doing some, I can't do everything and I don't want to. So the VAs and my team, the help, you need help. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 43:29

And toothbrushes as well, if you can get them. And lastly, avoid. What's something you feel that people need to ditch that perhaps they think is serving them well that they need to get rid of as soon as possible?

SPEAKER_02: 43:40

Gosh, so much. Okay, I'm trying to try to boil this down to what's the main one. I think that they should ditch... Yes, they've got to ditch caring what other people think about them. Like, Nobody cares. Nobody's watching you. We hope they are when you do a post or something, but you've got to ditch the faking that you're doing well when you're not because when you're faking you're doing better than you're not, you can't get help. Sick, and you don't tell people that you have symptoms, then you'll die. Stop caring what other people think about you and be vulnerable when you need help and seek help because I have... never had any problems saying, I really need some help. I need to hire you. You're like, this is, I'm desperate, you know, kind of thing. Or I hire a lot of people and it doesn't always go well, but you know, I've made millions of dollars, so I'm good, but you do need to get help. So the thing to ditch is caring what other people think about you.

SPEAKER_00: 44:45

Yeah. I love that. That's so authentic as well, Sian. I have massively enjoyed our chat. Thank you so much for spending time with us today on the consultancy edge.

SPEAKER_02: 44:55

Been a pleasure.